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I spent countless hours researching both the Drobo and the HP MediaSmart Server. I hope you won't mind me giving my opinion even though I decided against purchasing the Drobo.
I would not back-up your MediaSmart Server to the Drobo for several reasons. First, the Drobo uses essentially the same technology - hard drives. I'd want to hedge my bets by using ANOTHER type of storage. Second, the Drobo is an expensive option and overkill - essentially making and third and fourth copy of the files you already have two copies of. Third, the Drobo is a bit large to carry around... Meaning, ideally if you really want to keep your files safe, you want to store them at two separate locations. The options I would consider if I were you would be either archival DVDs (available on-line and tested to 100 years) or a G-RAID2 firewire drive (these things are build like brick you-know-whats). Or you can leave the storage issue to someone else by using an on-line storage option - to me, that is the most expensive option and no more secure than handling it yourself. Just make sure you keep copies at two separate locations.
Hope this helps.
Categories: Backup and Restore
Has anyone used a Drobo as a backup device for the HP MediaSmart Server? Right now I'm backing up to a USB drive. I think a backup device like Drobo would add another layer of protection but am not sure if, or how well, it would work.
Thanks,
DickDay
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Opinions are what I'm after :)
Good points on overkill. I am curious why you think web-based backups are not all that secure. That is one option I am considering.
Thanks!
DickDay
My opinion of on-line file storage services is an admittedly uneducated one. I looked at the prices of one service and said "You've got to be kidding me." Also, I'm a skeptic and accidents happen - So my feeling is I'd rather be in charge of preserving my files rather than leaving that critical job to someone I don't know. Not to mention the danger of having my files accessible by who knows who. I'm sure theft is extremely unlikely... However, I just received a letter last week from a supposedly secure lender saying "Oops, someone has stolen thousands of our customers private information, including yours... Sorry." ;^)
Having said all that, I'm sure I'm being WAY too paranoid (and cheap)! Let me know what service you land on... I may end up going that route someday myself.
Bob
I believe in good ole fashioned off site storage... the big guys do it... why not you? You can get an external 1tb hdd for 169 at tigerdirect. Get two... if your data is that important. Rotate them out. One at your parents house... your friends house... your trunk, whatever. Bob, we are in agreement I guess. Unfortunately, WHS uses JBOD instead of being able to be configured with some mirroring. I had read somewhere that two WHS servers could co-exist and mirror each other, but haven't seen more than that. You can emulate this with Hamachi, Synctoy, Foldershare, and an offsite computer or WHS.
I'm not an IT guy but the Wikipedia definition of JBOD states that this approach "does not supply data redundancy." And yet, the MediaSmart Server (or is this really a WHS capability?) allows you to select files to duplicate and then it backs them up to a separate drive. Very similar to how the Drobo works. I understand that technically there are differences - which are over my head - but the net result seems to be the same; My files are backed up on two separate drives. Have I been mislead?
And, yes, total agreement on backing up important files at two separate physical locations. My only point was that I'd prefer to be responsible for the media rather than someone out there in cyberspace... There are people in this world who are conscientious about their work and maintaining their systems, and there are those who are simply collecting paychecks at large companies. I have no way of knowing which of those types are hired by a web-based storage solution. When I manage my files, I'm constantly aware that losing them could mean losing my livelihood. Mind you, I admitted to being a skeptic! ;^)
JBOD in the sense that it takes drives and stuffs all the space together. There are white papers on drive extender that are pretty deep in its function. But, mirroring in the RAID sense is different than the way WHS handles Duplication.
WHS isn't completely JBOD but similar in one sense... just as whs isn't server 2003 but is in one sense.
/* begin rant */
Drive Extender uses duplication to essentially mirror a folder, where RAID1 mirroring is actually mirroring the entire drive. If you don't specify duplication on a folder and lose the drive, those are gone! If you use RAID1 or mirroring you can rebuild the array with another drive and keep all of your data.
From my readings, mirroring was deemed too complicated for the average home user to manage and that is why they use this drive extender technology. However, any decent RAID setup would rebuild the array as soon as a new drive is plugged in.
Although it is good for the home user in that they can specify which folders they wish to have duplicated, most of us would have all folders using duplication anyway. So why not go with mirroring?
In this sense, if that is the scenario, why use drive extender in the first place? If you are using duplication for all folders you are using the same space twice, doubling the amount of space used by your data. That is the same for RAID1 mirroring. The other reason, perhaps, may be an increased hardware cost... and maybe the folks at HP can speak to that better than I can. What would the cost increase be to the end user purchasing an EX47x with two drives in a RAID1 configuration verses without? Even though a raid card can be had for less than 50.00 US.
To highlight how this works, consider this example. If a new photo is saved to the
Photos shared folder on your home server, the following happens:
1. A new entry for this file is created in the file table on the primary data partition. On a home server with multiple hard drives, this is a "tombstone" file.
2. The Windows Home Server Drive Extender file system filter creates a pointer (reparse point) for the new file and determines onto which hard drive the photo should be stored. The tombstone is updated with the location of the actual file. This file is known as the "master or primary shadow."
3. If Folder Duplication is enabled for the Photos shared folder, the Windows Home Server Drive Extender Migrator service creates a duplicate copy of the file and updates the tombstone file on the primary data partition with the reparse point to include the second location of the shadow file. This file is known as the alternate or secondary shadow.
Important
If Folder Duplication is enabled, a shared folder may be marked as Unhealthy if there is not enough room to store two copies of the shared folder contents on different hard drives. There must be two hard drives with enough space to store the contents of the shared folder.
With the file tombstones and references to shadow copies... this is the reason Microsoft had issues with data corruption in the first place. If drive mirroring had been used that whole fiasco would have been eluded.
/* end rant */
Further thought:
WHS with drive extender will allow you to use dissimilar drives and create a pool. In a discussion with my colleagues here, i argued the point that; in a new system, who would buy dissimilar drives anyway? If HP were to adopt this functionality they could offer upgrade / replacement packages on drives sold in their Home Server series of products. Essentially, helping people that don't know much about the mirroring "stuff" to spend their money with HP, and let hp manage this instead of other retailers. Those that do know, can do what they choose.
Got it. Technically different, but net result is the same providing you read the manual and turn on file duplication for the files you need duplicated and not for the the ones you don't. I don't need duplicates of everything that I save, just my photos, so in my case I'm not wasting space on copies I don't need (Then why save the files in the first place you ask? Come look at my basement! I keep EVERYthing).
Thanks for clarifying!
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Two points to remember in this discussion:
(1) The differences in drives come over time. Initially you would likely have purchased all 500GB drives -- today you would probably be adding 1TB drives (at less cost, too!). This is not real compatible with mirroring, first because of the expense in buying drives in pairs and second because of the complexity when it becomes necessary to move the data to larger drives.
(2) With Drive Extender the disks are standard NTFS volumes. In the event of an MSS failure they can be mounted on any SATA-II/NTFS system and data can be recovered. In a mirrored RAID system you generally need to recover on identical hardware -- easy soon after the initial purchase but occasionally a real problem 3-5 years later as the new hardware formats the drives slightly differently and cannot read the old ones.
Now, if the use of RAID (Mirrors, stripes, or other) is important to you for your WHS system you may want to consider building your own with RAID-2 or RAID-5 arrays. There is nothing in WHS that would prevent this, but that is not the target market for the HP MSS hardware. I use RAID on my "main" PC but would NOT want it on my MSS. (And yes, for me, it was a very concious decision as the system I used for the WHS beta did have RAID capabilities and I seriously considered building my own vs buying an HP MSS.)
...JohnBick
EX475 + 3 1TB WD (2.5TB "pool", 1.5TB backup), 2 GB mmry, LE-1640, APC UPS
PC1: Vista/32 Ultimate SP1, 2x150 GB Raptor RAID-1 Sys (C) & 4x320GB RAID-5 Data (D)
PC2: Laptop, Win XP Home SP3
Linksys WRT54G v1.1, 2xNetGear GS105
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Cruisercommander said: What on-line storage options work with the HP mediasmart server?May I suggest this would be better discussed in a separate thread? Before doing that you may also want to search this board and http://www.mediasmartserver.net/forums/ for similar discussions. (Try using "online" and "on-line" as a start, then with some of the service names you run into that way.) You might even try Google using thise terms in combination with "WHS" and "Home Server".
...JohnBick
EX475 + 3 1TB WD (2.5TB "pool", 1.5TB backup), 2 GB mmry, LE-1640, APC UPS
PC1: Vista/32 Ultimate SP1, 2x150 GB Raptor RAID-1 Sys (C) & 4x320GB RAID-5 Data (D)
PC2: Laptop, Win XP Home SP3
Linksys WRT54G v1.1, 2xNetGear GS105
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